Robert Reich's Blog

Robert Reich was the nation's 22nd Secretary of Labor and is a professor at the University of California at Berkeley. His latest book is "Supercapitalism." This is his personal journal.

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Name: Robert Reich

Latest book, "Supercapitalism," is now out in paperback. For copies of articles, books, and public radio commentaries, go to www.robertreich.org. This blog is available as an RSS feed. Public radio commentaries are now available as a podcast.

Sunday, March 02, 2008

Are We Heading for Another Great Depression?

Probably not. But go back 75 years and you'll find eerie similarities. Marriner S. Eccles who served as Franklin D. Roosevelt’s Chairman of the Federal Reserve from November, 1934 to February, 1948 gave his view of what caused the Depression in his memoirs, "Beckoning Frontiers" (New York, Alfred A. Knopf, 1951):

As mass production has to be accompanied by mass consumption, mass consumption, in turn, implies a distribution of wealth -- not of existing wealth, but of wealth as it is currently produced -- to provide men with buying power equal to the amount of goods and services offered by the nation s economic machinery. Instead of achieving that kind of distribution, a giant suction pump had by 1929-30 drawn into a few hands an increasing portion of currently produced wealth. This served them as capital accumulations. But by taking purchasing power out of the hands of mass consumers, the savers denied to themselves the kind of effective demand for their products that would justify a reinvestment of their capital accumulations in new plants. In consequence, as in a poker game where the chips were concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, the other fellows could stay in the game only by borrowing. When their credit ran out, the game stopped.

That is what happened to us in the twenties. We sustained high levels of employment in that period with the aid of an exceptional expansion of debt outside of the banking system. This debt was provided by the large growth of business savings as well as savings by individuals, particularly in the upper-income groups where taxes were relatively low. Private debt outside of the banking system increased about fifty per cent. This debt, which was at high interest rates, largely took the form of mortgage debt on housing, office, and hotel structures, consumer installment debt, brokers' loans, and foreign debt. The stimulation to spending by debt-creation of this sort was short-lived and could not be counted on to sustain high levels of employment for long periods of time. Had there been a better distribution of the current income from the national product -- in other words, had there been less savings by business and the higher-income groups and more income in the lower groups -- we should have had far greater stability in our economy. Had the six billion dollars, for instance, that were loaned by corporations and wealthy individuals for stock-market speculation been distributed to the public as lower prices or higher wages and with less profits to the corporations and the well-to-do, it would have prevented or greatly moderated the economic collapse that began at the end of 1929.

The time came when there were no more poker chips to be loaned on credit. Debtors thereupon were forced to curtail their consumption in an effort to create a margin that could be applied to the reduction of outstanding debts. This naturally reduced the demand for goods of all kinds and brought on what seemed to be overproduction, but was in reality underconsumption when judged in terms of the real world instead of the money world. This, in turn, brought about a fall in prices and employment.

Unemployment further decreased the consumption of goods, which further increased unemployment, thus closing the circle in a continuing decline of prices. Earnings began to disappear, requiring economies of all kinds in the wages, salaries, and time of those employed. And thus again the vicious circle of deflation was closed until one third of the entire working population was unemployed, with our national income reduced by fifty per cent, and with the aggregate debt burden greater than ever before, not in dollars, but measured by current values and income that represented the ability to pay. Fixed charges, such as taxes, railroad and other utility rates, insurance and interest charges, clung close to the 1929 level and required such a portion of the national income to meet them that the amount left for consumption of goods was not sufficient to support the population.

This then, was my reading of what brought on the depression.

26 Comments:

Anonymous Diane B. said...

Dr. Reich,

I am not an economist but, I fear that we are heading towards a great depression.

All of the properties soon to be foreclosed. All this mountainous debt I am sixty years old and have never feared so for myself, other Americans and our Country!

We need to end this War in Iraq reduce our bases abroad, reduce some of our foreign aid immediately.

I realize this President and our current Congress will never do this their going to continue to push our Country and our debt right over the breaking point.

Yes, there will be unbelievable suffering shortly, I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

I only pray that Hillary Clinton is elected President because she will have former President Clinton this former Rhodes Scholar there to help guide this suffering Country back to wellness again! We will need all the guidance we can get at this time.

Sunday, 02 March, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dr. Reich,

Would you like to use tags <blockquote> for your readers? Italics are not easy to read.

Sunday, 02 March, 2008  
Anonymous Alex said...

Eerie similarities is right! Can you please tell us why we aren't heading for a great depression? Our situation sounds exactly the same except we also are $9 trillion in debt, are stuck in a disastrous and expensive war, are facing flat or declining oil production, and don't have FDR.

Sunday, 02 March, 2008  
Blogger Jim Driscoll said...

I, too, question the "probably not" portion of your post. I fail to see what will stop us. You obviously see something - I'd love to know what it is.

Sunday, 02 March, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most of the people in the 20's lived on farms. Now we live in suburbs and are totally dependent on the corporations for our food supply and energy needs. Good thing they won't try to take advantage of that. Or will they.

Sunday, 02 March, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...been distributed to the public as lower prices..."

Wages are not under Fed control, but prices are. When trade or technological efficiency increases productivity, distribute the additional consumer items to all consumers with lower prices. We do not suffer from low demand in this country, only from low purchasing power.

Monday, 03 March, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I, like Alex, would love to see Dr Reich explain his comment that he does not believe we are headed for a depression.

I try and look for an optimistic solution that makes sense, but I just don't see one. So, please Dr Reich, tell us why we won't experience another depression.

Monday, 03 March, 2008  
Anonymous Frank Thomas said...

Dear Mr. Reich,

Indeed, the ingredients are there for a financial-social breakdown if intelligent reforms are not undertaken soon.We need to get realistic about an out-of-balance Economic Model of : rampant spending, souring debt in many areas (typified by a casino-like credit card addition), and concentration of wealth in upper 15% of our society ... all on a foundation of NO SAVINGS by a vast majority of Americans ... which in turn causes a sharp drop in bank financing for near and long-term Investments that could act as a powerful ongoing stabilizing cushion -- especially during inevitable economic slowdowns.
We are compounding the financial deficit chaos by an exorbitant military budget in combination with irresponsible tax and interest rate cuts that Enrich the already Rich without stimulating sufficient offsetting growth in Tax Revenues. As Reagan learned, people don't spend tax cuts when they are up to their ears in debt. So he wisely cancelled his second tax cut and even raised taxes in his second term to counter an exploding national deficit.
All this is occuring when we desperately need major social-infrastructure investments in schools; health care; support/training for those workers crunched by downsizing, outsourcing,mergers/acquisitions,
management failures; roads, bridges, etc.; as well as alternative energy sources.
Where is this money coming from when we're drowning in mountains of debt in all directions? We need some bright brains that can think objectively in the interests of ALL Americans on following possible solutions to avert a serious financial collapse: (1)Cancel Bush's next trillion dollar tax cut; redistribute part of this to those earning less than$150,000 a year plus offer tax incentives to stimulate Savings that will help fund needed Social-Infrastructure investments.


(2)Reduce Medicare premium and administration costs and apply $150billion potential savings to cost of supplying health care to all Americans.
(3) Reduce Military budget to a high-tech, quick-in-and-out force
devoid of overlapping, cost duplication that costs no more than 3.5-4.0% of GNP or $.35-38 of each annual Tax Revenue Dollar (EXCLUDING Soc. Security and Medicare which have their own separate Tax Revenue/Cost flows); apply potential savings of plus $200 billion to deficit reduction to restore world confidence in the U.S. dollar.

(4) Set firm goal to create right incentives to raise nation´s savings rate to at least 5% of GNP within four years; this will become strategic basis for bringing our nation´s Investment level more in balance with the Consumption level to realize a more stable growth pattern in good and bad times -- much like the Dutch and Scandinavian Economic models.

(5) Establish a Government `matching fund´that supports private investment in the retraining of workers losing their jobs due to plant shutdowns, outsourcing,mergers/acquisitions,
natural disasters, etc.

(6)Come up with some pragmatic, creative bi-partisan reforms that give ALL Americans confidence that Social Security system is solid and secure for future generations as one would expect of any advanced, respectable nation.

(7) Make the annual public
reporting of our nation´s financial performance utterly transparent in a simple way broken down along following lines:

A. National Budget Including: Defense, Interest on Debt, Anti-Terrorist Cost, ALL OTHER, i.e.,Roads/Bridges/Schools; Pork Barrel; Foreign Aid; Worker Support/Retraining; Energy Independence; Natural Disasters; etc.
B. Medicare

C. Social Security

There can be reasonable differences on how to get from A to B with our tax/spend policies, but when we start the debate, as we always have, from a false and/or unclear factual framework of our government´s audited, accurate financial results (past and projected) -- then we will all remain lost in a sea of unreality and politized, clever manipulation of facts that has brought us to a national economic mess of dramatic proportions.

Frank Thomas, The Netherlands

Monday, 03 March, 2008  
Anonymous StrictlyMiddleClassEngineer said...

I love historical context. Thanks for the post. I do also enjoy the comments people make on here, many of which are well-reasoned and thought provoking. That said, I wish everyone would remember what FDR himself famously said about Fear and the American Public. I read the comments and see mostly fear and hand-wringing, with the occasional solutions driven response. We need fewer Chicken-Littles in our country and more Can Do, Let's Get Busy attitude. We are Americans, after all.

Monday, 03 March, 2008  
Blogger DFB said...

Thank you for the history lesson. It is helpful to see other points of view, particularly those who lived through a particular crisis.

If the US were to face a depression, would it even be similar to the one that started in 1929? Then, the US economy saw deflation. Would we also see similar deflation or is it more likely we will see runaway inflation akin to the Weimar Republic of the 1920s or Zimbabwe of today?

Monday, 03 March, 2008  
Blogger SAP SCM said...

Dear Dr. Reich,

I had a chance to read through your book on supercapitalism and I was impressed with the facts you presented supported by your commentary. I really liked the way you discussed the issue of capitalism hurting democracy.
I am grateful for your work on this important subject. While i agree with your solutions for the most part, I sincerely hoped you had spent more time on solutions. Perhaps, you would consider sharing these views with the political campaigns currently underway.

Regards,
Pavan

regards,

Pavan

Monday, 03 March, 2008  
Anonymous donna said...

So, what do we have if not a depression? Jubilee? Or do we do the massive bank bailout as people bail out of their homes?

What is the path out of the mess?

Monday, 03 March, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was astonished to read that the Government is determined to lower interest rates despite the fact that core inflation may rise above their 1-2% comfort zone. Their rationale was that it is more important to fix the economy first and deal with inflation later.

Unfortunately, this decision is devastating the dollar and, ironically, is itself contributing to inflation. Our weak dollar is causing all commodity costs to skyrocket, the effects of which will inevitably perturb even the core inflation indicator.

I fear an economic reckoning is not far off--call it recession or depression. Call it what you will, but certain it is.

Monday, 03 March, 2008  
Blogger Rajesh said...

Are we in a recession? Would we know it if we were in one?

Are we in a depression? Would we know it if we were in one? Have we been in a depression since 2001 without knowing it?

There are many parallels between the bubble of the 1920's and the dot com bubble. After the crash of 1929, the Federal Reserve raised interest rates but it was not until the banking crisis of 1932 that the economy bottomed out.

In contrast, after the stock market crash of 2001, the Federal Reserve lowered interest rates. This apparently worked to stabilize the economy, until the banking crisis of 2007-08 revealed that the problems had only been swept under the rug.

Are we now in the Lesser Depression, a prolonged period of low economic performance, better managed than the Depression of the 20th century but just a wrenching to the economics systems of the world?

Monday, 03 March, 2008  
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Tuesday, 04 March, 2008  
Blogger Mike said...

I love a good history lesson! What I fear as much as anything, though, is our $9,000,000,000,000 national debt in that much of it is no doubt held by overseas (read:Chinese) banks. What's to stop them from raising interest rates dramatically and saying they doubt our ability to re-pay the loan? The "conservatives" who only focus on not paying taxes are creating a huge defense issue here.

Tuesday, 04 March, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The assumption in this article is that if the masses had had more income leading up to and after the peak in asset prices, they would have spent it on consumption which would have kept the economy going. Would they? The US was in a mass hysteria - a psychological state of mind which sucks in most people. If the masses had had more income, I think that they would have levered themselves even more to participate in the asset price inflation.

Think of the current situation. Would people with 20% more income now be safe? No, they would have borrowed even more to buy an even more expensive house.

This article will not be the last attempt to use the situation to forward a given political agenda.

Thursday, 06 March, 2008  
Anonymous plooger said...

Expanding alex's comment on differences between now and the 1930s depression... our conversion to a "service economy" from production of goods will further inhibit recovery. How are we going to turn our economy around if American workers are little involved in the production of goods satisfying our basic needs?

Saturday, 08 March, 2008  
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Tuesday, 11 March, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dr. Reich,

I posted my first ever blog on the Barack Obama for president web site. I repeated it below. I'm wondering if much of our economic problems would be solved if we fix our energy problem. I believe we need a Roosevelt approach and Kennedy passion to get it done. What do you think? I know this may seem overly simplistic, but what the heck.

(Voters vote with their pocket books. Fixing the energy crisis fixes many of the issues affecting our economy. America needs to move from energy dependency to energy ABUNDANCE. Most voters don't know what the candidates positions are. It is necessary for Barack Obama to tell the voters what will fix the problem of dependency and raise America to economic high health and energy independence. Since most everything is connected to oil, therefore the replacement to this is essential.

Before we slip into a depression which is possible, we must come together as one America and institute a major overhaul as did Roosevelt with the Tennessee Valley Authority or JFK did with getting us to the moon. Only this time even bigger. Nuclear power plants now have the safety measures to prevent human intervention. They automatically shut down every time a signal indicates a problem. Humans cannot override a shutdown. This is why we haven't had a problem since either Three Mile Island or Chernobyl. France has shown that they can power themselves with Nuclear, we should too. Hydrogen fuel cells for transportation can't become popular without stations to refuel your fuel cells. The Japanese invested in their auto industry and now who's cars and trucks are seen everywhere in America. We should be selling vehicles to the world, not the other way around. Water power generated electricity is still untapped off the coasts and in much of the country. Solar power mass produced and made affordable for America's homes would be another. Hot water heaters

heaters need to offered at reasonable prices with copper liners since they never wear out. The changes I propose would put to work Americans for the betterment of America. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." JFK)

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Monday, 17 March, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have read the comments of other people and I am astounded at some of the ignorance.
Question what really ended the depression of years ago? How many people would be without work if the conflict in Iraq was ended? How much do the working class people make while working for the big gov contractors? What I am trying to get at is we would be ten times worse if we did not have the War funding all the improvements into the military right now. The United States can only build so many roads and bridges like the past depression era tactics to create jobs...

Saturday, 22 March, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also as a note to my previous post.

If the Untied States were to get off the eco insain mode and wake up. If we do not smartly (there is always a risk in anything we do) gather our natural reasources, rather than depend on foreign resources to keep our country running on a daily basis (oil). We will keep in this downward spiral. Worse yet is many of these countries we buy oil from do not even care what they do to the enviroment. So the damage goes unnoticed for the outside world untill a true disater happens. If the United States is ever to fix the true problem we need to smartly gather our reasources in a responsible manner while understanding the risks we accept will be less than other countries that we currently depend on. Nothing is perfect but is seems we can not stand to dirty our lands some while destroying entire eco systems.

No I am not a eco geek, I am just a Marine who has been all over the world over the past 20 years. I will tell you this go outside the tourist towns and see the real world overseas.

Saturday, 22 March, 2008  
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